Speaker 1 0:03
Hi everybody. So as she mentioned, my name is Caleb. This is Sophia on, as members of so so why Seaman sent us specifically, I want to follow Walker's directions on, why, why we're here specifically. Sophie on is one of our esteemed wincow engineers out of Eisenstadt, and you'll see why he's here. I actually have had a career here in the United States, working in a lot of automation sectors, particularly oil and gas and some of the agriculture and some food in bed, but largely oil and gas. And in that time, I have come to some conclusions about how a control system or an automation system or usual architecture ought to be built. And so what we're going to talk about today is why what Siemens a number one that Siemens is dedicated and committed to the unified namespace and continuing and fostering the growth. And maybe some of you were surprised that we were the first of the big three to buy into this, but I think you'll see pretty quickly why we think it's a good idea and how we intend to extend it. And secondly, I'm going to want to talk about what we like to call beyond the dashboard. So at a certain point, you know, using Walker's example, you know when he explained in his keynote speech about how he brought value to the customer that's the supporting the virtual factory here by analyzing certain parameters of the press and tunnel temperature and and which, which, which, which line operators were running it better or worse. Now, in the age of the Tesla self driving car, at a certain point, some people may want to ask, and some of you have at our booth, the next logical step would be to make an AI model that automatically adjusts those parameters right. And some of you might not be there yet, but certainly some of you are, and that's why you've asked about it. From our perspective, there's a holistic approach you take when you go beyond the dashboard and you're actually talking about taking intelligence and returning it back to the control system, there is a there is an interplay between these two sides of this coin. Number one, the control system, by definition, is not something that can fail ever but data science and AI models are, by definition, iterative. It's a science. Data science is something that is iterative. So how do you actually what is the interface between these two sides from a holistic perspective? Because there should be no one vendor that runs all of your AI stack. There should be no one vendor that makes all of the intelligence available to you. So what does the holistic stack look like? So today, what we did was we prepared, we prepared the system for this customer, for essentially a safety layer, if you will, for moving beyond their dashboard, which is because of the maturity of their uns, probably their next logical step. And we're going to show you why, why we extended the UNs the way we did. For those of you who saw what we're publishing, we'll try to explain what that, what that is, and we're going to talk about what it means to get analytics back into the control stream. So, so that's what we solved and how we solved it. Okay, so we're demonstrating this. We've got, we've added two things to the stack. One is industrial Edge platform, which we have at the machine level, and at the plant level, we have this zmatic Wind ccoa, or cymatic win ccoa, depending upon whether you're not from America or Germany, and what we're what we're going to do is we're going to show you, we're going to prove to you A that we can, we can connect to the stack, and how we used win ccoa as Walker calls it an IoT platform. We also call it, you know, an MTP. They might call this a process orchestration layer. You can call it a plant orchestration layer. You can call it farts. For all I care, there is another there's a third thing that has to be added to your just like we're starting to talk about edge. There is another platform that has to be added to your facility the moment you start adding high speed cameras and AI models and trying to do all this, you know, this fancy stuff. There's a holistic approach that you have to take to this. And we're and so we're so, as you can see from the architecture, I'm not going to walk people through it too, you know, you know, you're all smart people. You can see we're, we're connected to. Uns in two spots, one at the industrial edge spot, and one at the win CCLA. And in both cases, we're both publishing and subscribing to specific topic areas. We're mostly focused around press 103, so at the machine level, we have industrial edge. Here's all the things that everyone says about edge stacks. But most importantly, we're going to talk about machine proxy and its role in enabling a controls engineer who we believe, I'll say, I believe, has to, has to be in control of this control stream, this interface between the AI system, any AI intelligences and control system has to be under the control of the controls engineers. If any of you believe that I am wrong, I'm happy to have this debate. So if you want to come over to our booth and argue with me about who has to be in control of this layer, happy to, happy to, happy to, thanks. Walker, so, but so and in that layer, and in that layer we we address things at the machine level, but now at the factory level, we have win CCO, a which has the visibility into the whole into the whole facility, the relationships machines have to each other, the relationships those machines have to other entities within the facility. So again, we're mostly in this conversation going to be focused on these two layers, and we're not going to extend into the MES layer or anything like that. Because again, what we're talking about here is the beyond the dashboard layer, which, of course, has to happen. You know what I like to call it, in front of the first database, or in front of the in front of the SCADA system, in many cases, but it does involve the SCADA system, and so we'll kind of talk about that in a little bit, but we're going to talk about win CCLA so Sophia, on. We're going to go through a few more slides. I apologize as we kind of plod through this. You'll see us prove it here in a little bit. But I just wanted to make but, but, but as a rule, we have to kind of do this part. So you guys have fun. Thank
Speaker 2 7:04
you very much. I think no need to present a lot. They already got all the live quiz and say, no, they know everything about twin CCA away, but nevertheless, I will go some through slides. But first of all, before going that, I'm not a good speaker as Caleb. I'm just simple engineer who is passionate and loves wincityca So I'm just gonna express my passion here and walk you through what is wincitycaa. So as you already saw in the other slides, winccaa is not a Swiss Army Knife among IoT platform, was it Austrian ones? So if you are wondering where you cannot, where you gonna run winccaa, simple question, everywhere and on what you want to run winccaa, also everywhere. And you know nowadays to conform to the international standards is something really important. That's why we introduced our certifications for the security, safety and other drivers. If you want to learn more what wincity is certified on, then you just go to our website and learn about it more.
Speaker 1 8:15
By the way, I see you over there that called us out on the running on the Raspberry Pi aspect of it. It's over there in the booth. We went, we went to micro center and got one and put it on there. So if you go to the booth, you'll see us, you'll see win CC away. You'll see this on the Raspberry Pi. So yeah, go ahead,
Speaker 2 8:33
as you know, win CC away panels are, might are made by win CCA away, you know. So it's like wins this away made himself so if you want to take wincity, say away and make your brand and label it, label your product, then win CCA is really easy to way to go with and in Win CCA away, we have already all the tools that you need to overcome, all the challenges for the It ot integration layer, and you can have all the tools to build your own drivers, protocols and so on. Yeah. And also, as you, as you already saw, win CCA away, can go from really simple architecture to the most complex architecture in the world. So yeah, for the prove it actually how we solved the UNs integration and how we could bring everything to OA, we simply did it by no GS, maybe, most of you maybe is familiar with TypeScript or JavaScript, so I'm gonna show you here. I did it. You already have? As you know, you already have many NPM packages which are built by someone do some stuff. So you want to beneficiate from that you can just simply play around and bring it to OA and you have them ready. So let me walk you through how we did actually we have our win. CC. Node, GS Manager, which connects to the UNs and browse, connect and bring all the structure to OA, give it to OA, and then all the magic happens by we replicate all the UNs structure. We have it ready and ready to use in OA, but not only the structure, but also connected. So every topic, every tag, is connected and ready to read the data, like real time data. So and also all this is happening dynamically. So if there is a change in the UNs structure, you will see it immediately in wincca, and you will see also the value changes and everything. And of course, as we have it now, the UN structure in OA, we can deliver it also in as we can deliver it through OPC, UA, BACnet and other protocols, yeah, we're gonna demo this in few seconds. Yeah. What we could also bring here, this is just a bonus from us to the to the to the prove it. So I could also build a simple application, notification application, where you can receive alarms, acknowledge them, request trends, and also send comments. Okay, so by from your phone, from your application, you are able to publish back to DNS. So you by sending comments. This is interesting topic. You know, nowadays in industrial world, downtime cost money, and it's a no go to way. So imagine you have in your plant, you have your you have your application running, and something happened. You wanted to adjust. You want to make some changes, but you don't want to shut down your project. You don't want compile. You don't want to close the panel so you don't go blind on your PLCs, what is going in the field and so on. And you want to stay to have a high level availability with wincitycua, actually, all what you can all your engineering, is done during run time. You don't need to do to shut down anything. You don't need to re browse. You don't need to close and open again. Everything is done during runtime. Also, these dashboards are built during runtime. Once we have the U N s queried to the to our Vcc away, immediately, you can start creating your dashboard and immediately monitoring the data. So we have also actually the predictive maintenance with our win CC, aware, smart SCADA, this tool, it helps you to monitor and predict possible problems in the future by going through your data, the historical data, in a certain time, and try to find correlation. Of course, this correlation has to be classified to do so we you need a process engineer who knows exactly how your plant run and can define this, these clusters or these correlations, and define them in in in such machine state, if it's good, bad, something like that. Of course, we asked worker many times, unfortunately, he was sick. You can say that we couldn't have, unfortunately, a process engineer who can walk us through and check this correlation what we found, and try to make them as KPIs and so on. But we did our best. We could also find some correlation by our own, without the help of process engineer, and we could also classify and we could also define KPIs. And if you are interested more and you want to dive deep into this topic about predictive maintenance and how win CCA solves it, then you just need to go to our booth eight, and we can have really good discussions about that for the enterprise level, AI powers operation. I think my friend is skip
Speaker 1 14:26
through it because I want to actually go the demos. Every you know people, people make generative AI for the shop floor. The end of the day, Siemens has their own but the main point here is really about once we get beyond the dashboard, once we get back to this. So now, so if you want to, if you want more on this, we can talk about it later. I think that there were probably some vendors that just specialize in this one thing. So it's better for us to just go straight to our well, you know, our thesis, if you will.
Speaker 2 14:56
Okay, so let's have some hands on. Right now. Bless you.
Speaker 1 15:07
So funny story. Well, while he sets this up, I don't know if it'll show up on screen. You can start showing on screen. Now if you want,
Speaker 2 15:18
not sure, I think we need to switch.
Speaker 1 15:23
Can we pop his screen up on the Okay, thank you. So. So one thing that's a funny story is Sophie on wasn't aware that that making the top the structure of the namespace queryable was a special thing that other people would like make a product feature. He just did it like an afternoon. And that's the point of win CCLA is it's more of a tool kit for engineers. It's not. It is an IoT platform. And so what he's going to show you right now is how win CCLA adopts the entire structure dynamically into the into what, what Wednesday calls its plant model, you can go ahead and do it, yeah, into its plant model, they can see they've been staring at this all day, and and then makes, makes that topic structure queryable.
Speaker 2 16:18
So basically, this is how the UNs structure looking like. Now, every vendor is publishing basically, and not only from Walker. So maybe this is a short introduction. Also this what you are seeing here, this panel, what we call the graphic editor Gedi here, where you can build your panels, your graphical object and so on. But
Speaker 1 16:49
I want to say a very old school thing right now. But one of the things I do like about this interface is you're not waiting, because it's not web client, web server. Everything that you do happens immediately. So that's one of the downsides. Until we get further down the wasm path. For those of you who are, who are WebAssembly nerds, there's, there's still some latency inherent to to web servers. So, so
Speaker 2 17:12
I want to introduce you also to another panel. What we have. It's a feature, what we have since, since ever I don't remember, but as as uns is to the source, true, Source Truth of, how is that? Yeah, we have the same in the in this panel here, so where you can actually model your data, your you have, you know, when you start the application, you define all the tags, and your tags are going to be flat, and you have them defined in a way like depends on the data type and so on. But you need something more than that. You need your data defined based on your plant how it is defined. For example, you have press 103 then you want to see all the data belongs to what this 103 exactly as the UNs is structured. And we have something the same. We call it plant model panel. Here you're here where you create your plant model and you expose it through OPC, UI, server, Modbus and Qt and other protocols here. So here, what I'm gonna demonstrate is how we can win CC away, connect to the broker and collect all the data structure and get it get it ready here in the you in our plant model without any interaction. I mean, everything is happening automatically. So, so,
Speaker 1 18:47
so what happens is dynamically, the plant structure as the units, as it changes, the plant structure will copy this. This is important, obviously, because if you're publishing into a specific tag, you obviously want to always know where it's at. Now, obviously this particular thing is something that a lot of people offer, but in general, we're trying to show you we felt like we wanted to start with the basics, and then if you want more flashy stuff, go ahead. Just do the thing. As I said
Speaker 2 19:16
earlier, you need to define your data points or tags. So here I started the new project where you have no data. Here, these are only the system data. But so if you search prove it, we have nothing so to be able to browse collect from the UNs. You just need to start the node GS that I told you about earlier in the slide. And if you are curious about what is behind this node, GS, I'm not the best developer. I just wrote some few line of codes. You. Here, you just need to play around with the NPM package, which is available on internet. And if you are also interested about the mechanism behind winccaa, how we interpret this data structure we got from the node GS is also through our control manager. It's a manager in Mississippi way where you can run when you can write your business logic, which will do something here, as you can see it here, this is also a few line of codes. And if we open again now the CNS view, you will see all your data structure as it is on the UNs.
Speaker 1 20:50
So and everything that you see here is queryable or knowable. There's all sorts of things that you can do to filter and or do stuff out of this. For those of you who are when CCUA nerds, there's the the what we've done is we've basically created data points. We you can win CC way treats data points in a very special way. I can. We can go into that later on, but no, but you saw there that he by adopting, by adopting that into the plant model. Now he can do the following stuff. So you can notice it's very, very fast. So the entire, all of the values that you're seeing is coming across. The whole thing wind CC is handling all of them.
Speaker 2 21:30
And it's, it's being created dynamically. And actually, also, if you have any changes done in the UNs, you will have them immediately in OA. And not only that, you have them in OA and also connected, where you can see also the value changes. So if we take this one as an instance, press 103, which is published in the UNs, you can check the data here. We will take this one, the data the data point, which is the tag you go to your here also, it's a proof that the data indeed was created. Now,
Unknown Speaker 22:09
so if you want to check what was created, you can do simply. Let me copy that one again. I
Unknown Speaker 22:38
it, yeah,
Speaker 2 22:40
you have also the value actually. And this is all is done during grand time. You don't need to restart the driver. You don't need to shut down your plant, anything. So it's everything dynamic. And here we are not talking about 100, 100 of data, but we are talking about 1000. And this, this is the structure where all the vendors here are publishing, and OA is able to bring all of them in just a second, as you saw it here, without any lag, without any delay, without any nothing. So you have here the values changing and so on. And if you want, this is just maybe. This is just an example here. Oh, sorry, this one. Let's create another one. Just so what we call about engineering during runtime, if you want to build also a dashboard. So the moment you had your uana structure in wincity away, you are able to visualize it also immediately. So we can browse here Dallas press. You have your press, 103, line. Machine state, what is it here? Let's call this comexie here.
Speaker 1 24:14
We call it, yeah, press 103, is a comexia plus, right? Okay, comexia Plus, yes. Okay, all right, so, yeah, because we, we So,
Walker Reynolds 24:27
so interesting fact for everybody. So the Comexi f plus actually is controlled by Siemens process control, and the brains is a DH 445, motion controller, which serves out the data via XML dA. So if you want to consume the data off this controller, actually, you can use OPC and some other mechanisms. But in this case, we actually consume the data from the press before it gets into the UNs over XML da, and then we publish it into the UNs.
Speaker 2 25:01
Yeah, sorry, I'm just playing around here. I just love this piece. I forgot. I'm
Unknown Speaker 25:08
bored. So
Walker Reynolds 25:10
there, there's a there's a couple of points I want to make. Like you guys may hear that I say there are three IoT platforms i i bring up all the time. Does anybody care to does anybody know what all three of them are? I'm
Unknown Speaker 25:24
gonna guess ignition, say it again.
Walker Reynolds 25:29
Okay, so frameworks, ignition and wincy CoA, right? Frameworks by tat soft, ignition at wincy CoA, yeah, it was really important to me that Siemens was here. I mean, they offered to come. I didn't reach out to them, but it was really important to me that they were here, because I get a lot of people pushing back on my claim that win ccoa is a IoT platform, which is ridiculous. Actually, most people think of wincca as next gen skate HMI, which is just not true at all. Win CCA is a IIoT platform where the entry point is the engineer. So the entry I would argue that it is an entry level. You need to be at an engineer level for your entry point to be into win CCA, whereas ignition, the entry point could be someone like an ignition, an electrician. And then when it comes to tatsoft, I say that tatsoft is more l1 it's also enterprise, but it's l1 it's the entry point is the OEM. So all three of the platforms work together in architectures, and it's very common to have them together, but it was really important that these guys came here to show you, you know, to those of you who don't build unified namespaces and plug in platform nodes, what they showed you is quite impressive, because what they did was they transformed, I think it at this point we're at 41,400 and something topics into into Siemens, No tag notes. Those are tag notes. And Siemens, and
Speaker 1 27:02
that server was just right here, right? And it was, it's on his laptop, right? Yeah, we're not, we're not running this in the cloud. We're not running this just like that. So, so, so, you know, we started from the bottom. Now we're here, right? So, so the last part we'll show you is what we published back in the unified namespace, and why we published this in the unified namespace. This is where we get into the interface between the what we call for now, the process orchestration layer and the edge, if you will, and how you can manage the interplay between the fact so number one, data scientists and control engineers. I've never, ever been to a facility or organization where those two groups speak to each other consistently, or even sometimes know where they are, right? So I've never seen it. So if you have seen it, please come and tell me. Oftentimes, data science team is hired by a whole different group. They don't even, sometimes even know who the controls engineers are. So when, how do you how is it safe, right? So and often in the future, is likely that, if you're an organization, you're going to have three vendors, two internal teams, all making Python models, none of them talking to each other, all of them trying to take control over the same valve on the same machine. That's so so how do we holistically prepare the facility for it? And here is where we're going to talk about the how we're extending, what the well, I don't even say extending using the UNs, and specifically the way in which we're using it today, I think that we're going to want to evolve it somewhat. ARLEN will talk about spark plug B, but in general, but in general, there's a specific set of ways that we handle it. So I'm going to use a specific example. I'm going to imagine for a moment that a data science team, I'm going to run out of time. A data science team is is trying to write to the print speed on press 103, okay, so they should never be running directly back to the PLC. Ever, ever there should be this. They should be writing back to this layer, number one. So what this layer does is number one in here, in this layer, and you can't make Siemens turn it off. It's a standard. This is part of module type package. But what we did was adapt did was adapted it for uns. So MTP was originally vision on top of OPC UA, we decoupled it off of OPC way and put it on uns. Can talk about all the reasons why we did that, but you probably know few the but the but what? What this here is is is. This is the interface to the left, the controls engineer controls. And then to the right, you can see what's being published on the UNs. If I want to write to print speed I write, I publish to what's called the V rec, or V request. It looks this way on every machine, same way. This is a standardized, normalized thing. And. So they go value request, what you get is value feedback. I'll have to cover this in more detail. I just ran out of time, but so the cost is, the cost of this solution is $19,000 for Win CC away
Unknown Speaker 30:15
and
Speaker 1 30:16
then. But it's please come by my booth if you're interested in the and what this looks like. Because,
Walker Reynolds 30:24
well, let's, let's. In fact, I'd rather you This is an important point. Okay, okay, I will just, we can, if you guys, I don't know what questions you guys have, but I this is a really, really important part of your presentation, okay, which is, you know, the the the importance of win CCO, a as a as an IoT platform that you can you can trust with the control stream. Yes, okay, so when we're writing out to devices controlling equipment, software and software and hardware platforms that were designed for control streams should handle control okay? And so this is why win CCO is so important. It can do software type things on control streams that are that interact with people.
Speaker 1 31:14
Yes, that's right, and that's an important part, right there, because we're never, we're not going to get to autonomous factory with no people anytime soon. So there is a world NASA calls this human robot teaming, but there is a world where the AI models and humans have to interoperate, right? So how do we do that? Number one, there are inherent state machines to this that you cannot turn off. One is that if an operator, so we have three modes of control, external control, internal control and Operator mode. If the operator puts the system into operations mode, what happens? All the AI models stop. They stop. The outputs go away. This is in here, in the system, there are flags that we're publishing to. So we're publishing, we're publishing that you can subscribe to these flags, and you can publish to certain of these values, but it will also enforce whether or not you can so in this particular case, we have what's called an analog service perimeter, which is print speed. And in this, inherent to this are some specific things, number one, value min and a value Max, which you'll see there on the I'm not sure how well it shows up. Okay, great. So the value min and the value Max, which means that this is the controls engineer, where the controls engineer sees, okay, you'll see from the left side the arrow that goes from process orchestration layer that's coming in from the AI models. Right right side is the process equipment assembly, which is a fancy word for the machine. Okay, so what comes in is the value request from the A from the AI model, the hypothetical AI model, in this case, what it gets back is you subscribe to the feedback, which is the feedback you get from the device. Because, just like Tesla learned with their with with how they made their self driving car, was how they put which they made, a data factory where the feedback, it's not just no to AI models, but why not? That's important, okay, because if you're going to make the AI models better, you have to provide them with feedback that provides the constraints, that enables them to understand this right as a fundamental, holistic thing. It can't be something you do for one AI model. It can't be built into AI model. It must be something that, as Walker said, the control stream handles. Sorry, I get passionate about this point. So, so if we're moving, if you're moving beyond the dashboard into autonomy, there's a few things that you must do. And so you see here, we'll just kind of go down the right side, apply, enable. Is, is? Is it okay for you to to send anything to me? Right now, right now? It's false. That means no. The V feedback is the response you get back from the machine. Now, the way this works is, it's an art, it's a run. It goes above the PLC. So you're not doing surgery on the PLC. This is it's all. All these scripts you see are structured text controlled by controls engineer. So this is logic that the controls engineer is mapping from whatever the whatever the spaghetti code was in the PLC to a normalized interface that's published in the UNs for everyone to for all all systems to look at at the same time. They all have equal visibility to this. So value min and value Max are, what are the minimum maximum values you're allowed to down here with the different states. These are the state channels, whether or not this system right now, is in automatic mode. Is it in external automatic mode, which is the only time it takes from Ai models. Is it in Operator mode? Is it in internal mode? Some these are inherent things that are inherent to MTP that we've captured here in this interface. Is allowing the controls engineer to set these, to set these parameters, and we can go all the way into this at our booth, because that's
Walker Reynolds 35:09
perfect, right there. That part is important to explain that, that element of it, Amy, you can go ahead and fire away
Unknown Speaker 35:20
to QA. Yeah,
Walker Reynolds 35:21
you're gonna go to QA, and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna close out the day when you
Speaker 3 35:26
all right, yes, so if we can get maybe that QR code back, we'll try and be a little quick on this. Sorry,
Speaker 1 35:31
Lucas, about the slide, that last slide. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 3 35:35
so I'm gonna start with the anchor question that we ask everyone who presents. Yeah. So everything that you showed that's great, but let's pretend you couldn't use win CCO a what is the best alternative you would do and then explain why your solution is better.
Speaker 1 35:50
So obviously, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna cheat. Because as a controls engineer, I would just, I would just implement this interface, ad hoc, if you will, or in the PLC, maybe, and, and I would, I would kind of just make it, but in this case, this is, but the reason why I would, did, I did I answer the question, yeah,
Speaker 3 36:13
sure, you build it yourself in your own IoT platform by hand. Yeah, sure. But then what makes this better? Okay? There's
Speaker 1 36:22
a few. The reason why, when CCA is run as the slow control system for the Large Hadron Collider is about performance, reliability, redundancy, scalability, okay, ask, ask your vendor what programming language the system was written in. That's important, because when you're D bottlenecking a system, and we're writing and you're interfacing between AI models in the control system. Inherently, you expect that this control stream is something you can rely on. This has been running 100 million, 100 million data points across 850 servers and distribute architecture in the Large Hadron Collider runs the New York subway station. It is, it is a very performance system. When I say we're running the entire, the entire the entire system, wind, CCU, on a Raspberry Pi, it's not an edge system. It's not a PLC, it's a whole. The whole platform is on there. That's, that's, that is because it was built and it was built and has been run through the ringer by some of the most complex, large systems in the world today, and you're basically benefiting from that.
Speaker 3 37:29
All right? Thank you. Yes, it does. So we have another question, and they must know a lot about Siemens. They say you guys are trying to say that you're bridging the gap between it and OT so why are you demoing win, CC, OA, specifically, instead of focusing on op center, I didn't
Speaker 1 37:44
have time. I mean, we could have brought op center X and all sorts of things. But in reality, you know, there's, I'm very happy if you, if you want op center demoed, I'm happy to do it.
Walker Reynolds 38:00
We're talking about the first 16 weeks. Yeah. And if you've got a good, if you've got a 16 week window, right,
Unknown Speaker 38:05
right, you're gonna start somewhere and you're
Walker Reynolds 38:07
gonna land away. Yeah, okay,
Unknown Speaker 38:10
what sets you apart from ignition?
Speaker 1 38:14
So what sets us apart from nation before? Before you ask this question, just so you know, I was an early adopter of ignition in 2014 I was a premier integrator of ignition, the first one in Oklahoma, I believe. And so I actually know quite a bit about ignition. I love ignition a lot. The way I would say it is, ignition is an incredible, incredible tool. It is great for making dashboards, and it is made great for human machine interface, really easy to use, really places to get started. I wouldn't say, I would not say I would not think of us as competitive ignition. That's not the way I would think about it. We've intentionally, intentionally priced this solution in such a way that you should buy ignition and this together, by the way, any of anybody who is from any of the Siemens divisions that are unhappy with what I just said. I'm sorry, but, but, but the truth of the matter is, is that here in the United States, there is I interface. I go out and I do this stuff for a living. I go to people's facilities, and I work with ignition. I actually interact with ignition all the time. How, when CCO is set apart, is it is really about the control stream. It's really about the it's really about that where things like latency and performance and scalability and things like that matter. And I'm happy to go into that in depth. This is an important
Walker Reynolds 39:44
question, and I'll answer it because I've been asked the same question 40 times. Okay, so let's be honest. Win. Ccoa was built by engineers for engineers. Ignition was developed by software to the. Developers for software developers used by engineers and electricians. So the reality is that the entry point at IA is it's all UC Davis software developers that developed inductive automations ignition. So the entry point really is, if I'm developing software, I'm going to be much more comfortable inside of ignition initially, and I'm going to be doing engineering things, but if I'm an engineer, I'm going to be way more comfortable inside of wincy CoA, doing software things. That's that's the fundamental difference. Wincy CoA is a hardened engineering platform that is an IIoT platform, and ignition is less hardened. But what you get out of that less hardening is flexibility. Not that when ccoa isn't flexible, but you get flexibility for the the lower level developer in ignition, in ignition. That's what I always say. It's by software developers, for software developers doing engineering things.
Speaker 1 40:59
Thank you. Walk right. It has a better answer than I gave. And like I said, I'm happy to have the conversation in depth, but what I won't do is bash ignition. Okay, you're absolutely right. It's not either or right, really. If right, if you're making, if you're trying, if you're trying to pick between the two, then that's not, we're not in the right conversation, yeah, all
Speaker 3 41:22
right, what would be the cost of a full solution if you want to go all the way from IoT to mes, and how many products and modules of the portfolio are needed?
Speaker 1 41:33
So, you know, we, we had a slide where, you know, we went to cc away for what we did today, the license is $19,000 one time as a perpetual license. And then, of course, there's that 14% if you want to do you know, if you want this upgrade, if you want newer versions, and things like that. And the we also included, we also had industrial edge, which, for what we did, was about, about about 1500 annually, and and and edge device. It doesn't require everything. I'm just answering what we used. And so you could do the math it, you know, we spent about, I would say, a total of about 100 hours, something like doing it, and like, if you bought win CCA, we'd throw this starter project in for free. That's, that's, that's, that's for you. So I think that answers that question. If you're starting, if you're going to the MES, you do an OP center X I, I would, I am happy to provide pricing. I have to think I wasn't authorized to provide pricing on the things I didn't bring, if that makes sense. But I know the cost of all these things, and it really matters if you're talking about like op center X or versus op center APL or it really depends on your like, your use case, because Siemens has Siemens makes everything. Make CAD software. We make product lifecycle management software heavily used in automotive and aerospace. So when you ask for the whole stack, you're asking from everything from like an ET 200 eco all the way to Team center. Then then you could spend easily well over a million dollars, you know, if you get all the bells and whistles all the way, but that's because, seeming that's because you're talking about the entire stack, which is a crazy but so we could, it's better for you to target which part of the stack you actually mean,
Speaker 3 43:33
all right, this will be the last question. I'm going to modify a little. So they said they saw quite a few screens to manage and set up. Wincy COA seems like a bit of a learning curve. So what would you recommend is the best way to help get people familiar with your product and make it usable? What's the approach?
Speaker 1 43:49
Winccoa.com actually has really good documentation. It's a tutorial. There's a startup, and they actually explain the the thesis behind the like data point types and data point elements, and what a data point is and how that's not just necessarily a tag and all that other stuff. There is a learning curve. It's, it's, it's like anything worth doing. I guess it's the best way to put it. We
Speaker 2 44:11
have also a chat, both us actually, in our documentation, you just need to enter your own prompt, and it tells you your answer right away. How can I run that manager? Or how can I write this snippet of code? Or where can I get this link or that thing? And yeah, you can just try it. Don't be afraid. Guys,
Speaker 3 44:33
amazing. So I know we have more questions again, everybody, I highly encourage you to go talk to these guys. Clearly. They're very authentic in their answers. Now, before I hand it to you. Walker, Tanya actually needs to make a quick PSA, hi guys. I have
Speaker 4 44:46
two things. One, we have a lost cell phone. It's got a picture of a couple of really adorable
Speaker 4 44:56
kids. You want to. One of your friends wants a cell phone. Please have them come for us. The other thing is, one
Speaker 3 45:17
of our other friends lost his credit card. If you see a credit card bidding around, so
Walker Reynolds 45:26
for me, it was really, really, really, really important that Siemens was here. It was very important, okay, I what you should take away from that, if you're if you're asking the eye, you're asking the platform question, I love ignition is much, probably more than Caleb does and but they're they're not the same, and they're not there. There's a Venn diagram, and there's some intersection, and one of the circles is software, and one of the circles is engineering, and then there's a big intersection in the middle that's software and engineering. And which platform you select first, you should use both. Which platform you select first is wholly dependent upon where your solution focus is going to be. If I'm going to be doing engineering to solve problems initially hardened engineering, then I'm probably going to land win ccoa First if I'm going to be doing software. So like, if I'm doing much more data, ops, analytics, but I'm not doing any control whatsoever, I'm probably going to land ignition first, but I promise you, at some point you're going to end up with both. You're going to end up with both. So that, and I think it's really important, I wanted you guys to understand the differentiation there. Huge. Thank you, Caleb. Caleb is the goat, by the way. So I mean, seriously, he is the goat. He knows his shit, no doubt about it. So appreciate you. Brother, Matt, thank you, Sophia. Thank you. Thank you.
